In the November issue of Scientific American, psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen of the University of Cambridge explores the possibility that some of the genes that contribute to autism are inherited along with genes behind certain cognitive talents common to scientists, engineers, mathematicians and other technical-minded people. Some evidence suggests that regions around the world where a lot of engineers and scientists live and marry—such as Silicon Valley in California and Eindhoven in the Netherlands—have higher than usual rates of autism. When two technical-minded people have children, they may be more likely to have a child with autism because of the underlying genetics. To help gather data to test these ideas, Baron-Cohen and his colleagues have created a Web site where parents can report what they studied in college, their occupations and whether or not their children have autism.
Chat Transcript
ferrisjabr Good morning everyone! I’m Ferris Jabr, one of the associate editors at Scientific American
ferrisjabr We’ll be starting the chat soon
mbloudoff Hi everyone, I’m Mollie Bloudoff-Indelicato with Scientific American. I’ll be joining in the chat as well.
Summer My name is Aaron Summer Lopez of Kansas City, Missouri
darciforrester Hi - my name is Darci Forrester - I’m in Oklahoma
mbloudoff Feel free to start posting questions now. We’ll get started in a few minutes.
mbloudoff Aaron, Darci – Great to have you to chatting with us today. Looking forward to your questions.
jm_c_r Hi my name is Josep M Im in Reus Catalonia
sbaroncohen Hi, this is Simon Baron-Cohen. Looking forward to chatting.
ferrisjabr Welcome to the Scientific American chat.
ferrisjabr We’ll be live for the next 30 minutes with University of Cambridge psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen, who is an expert on
ferrisjabr I’m Ferris Jabr, an associate editor for Scientific American, and I’ll be hosting this chat.
ferrisjabr Let’s get started.
darciforrester Hi Ferris
darciforrester Hi Simon
ferrisjabr Does anyone have any general questions for Professor Baron-Cohen about the genetics of autism?
darciforrester Yes - what kind of links are there to schizophrinia
darciforrester My husband and i both have genetic histories of it….
darciforrester Currently, our son is undergoing a trial of Risperdal (under the watch of a neurologist), and from what I understand
darciforrester and have read it is considered an anti-psychotic
sbaroncohen the majority of people with autism do not have autism but they can co occur
Summer My question was two-fold in relation to Autism and how it physiologically affects us during winter.
Summer Which would allow me to understand more of myself because I have not been diagnosed with Autism but my doctor referred to Asbergers.
sbaroncohen autism doesn’t seem to have a seasonal component unlike some forms of depression
sbaroncohen a diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome can be useful to help a person understand why they have had difficulties
Summer Biologically though has it ever been studied a link between higher thought in cold vs hot climates? This may be an avenue that could shed
Summer light on demographics.
sbaroncohen i’m not aware of any research comparing rates of autism in different climates
Summer thank you sir.
sbaroncohen we want to find out what the ‘risk factors’ are in parents to have a child with different kinds of autism
sbaroncohen parents can help our research by going to www.cambridgepsychology.com/graduateparents
nkvenugopal What are the common ‘risk factors’ that you’ve come across?
mbloudoff How many parents have participated so far?
sbaroncohen the website was only launched on november 2nd so it’s too early to say
sbaroncohen we are hoping to have thousands of parents give us information about their degrees and occupations
sbaroncohen risk factors in parents include having a previous child with autism
sbaroncohen but we are testing the hypothesis that scientists may have a higher rate of autism among their children
David Smith is it true that MIT was approached to do a study like this buy declined access to alumni
sbaroncohen It is true that we explored running this study at MIT.
sbaroncohen the advantage of our website study is that it doesn’t focus on one specific university like MIT
ferrisjabr It might be interesting to discuss the observations related to this hypothesis
ferrisjabr Particularly the higher rates of autism among MIT alumni, in the Silicon Valley etc
sbaroncohen we looked at autism rates in a different ‘silicon valley’ in the Netherlands, called Eindhoven
sbaroncohen we found there were more than twice as many children with autism in Eindhoven than in other Dutch cities
sbaroncohen Eindhoven is an information technology hub
nkvenugopal Regarding the hypothesis, does it stem from a hypthesis that scientists are borderline autistic as well?
darciforrester do you consider autism a kind of evolution of the brain?
sbaroncohen i think autism involves a different kind of mind and brain
sbaroncohen evolutionary hypotheses are very difficult to test
Ornella Are you also going to look at parents? If they have also autistic traits?
sbaroncohen we published a study in 2010 on parents, showing they have higher levels of autistic traits
sbaroncohen that was in the journal Molecular Autism
Ornella Thanks I will look at the publication
ferrisjabr Just a note for any latecomers: the chat is in full swing; feel free to post your questions
darciforrester systemizing is very interesting to read about….
darciforrester we have noticed how our son reacts to different situations….eg, he loves to be cuddled, and seems to empathize with
darciforrester inanimate objects or non-human characters
sbaroncohen i suspect that among parents or siblings of a person with autism there are higher rates of talents in systemizing
nkvenugopal Can you explain that a little bit more? ‘higher rates of talents in systemizing’?
Tamitha Mulligan Skov It is generally known among engineers that many in the field tend toward autism anyway, regardless of intellect.
sbaroncohen we have found fathers and grandfathers of children with autism are more likely to be engineers
sbaroncohen systemizing is how we figure out how a system works
sbaroncohen some systems are mathematical, some are mechanical, some are natural (like the weather)
sbaroncohen people with autism seem to be very interested in systems because they follow rules and have predictable
sbaroncohen and of course scientists systemize as part of their job patterns
mbloudoff Is it just a paternal link (fathers and grandfathers)?
darciforrester yes, i’m curious about the paternal link as well.
sbaroncohen we don’t know if the link is just paternal - our website study should help us identify if it is maternal as well
sbaroncohen i expect that both parents are contributing genes relevant to autism
darciforrester do you have a close date on data collection? when will the results be published?
Sheena My son is autistic, and my degree is in English. However, I have a great interest in science. Will your study take interests into account?
Tamitha Mulligan Skov In engineering you often do not need well developed social skills either. Could personality play a role as well?
sbaroncohen we haven’t got questions about ‘interests’, only about ‘degrees’ and ‘occupations’
sbaroncohen our study will run for a couple of months and we will summarize the results in Scientific American
darciforrester awesome. i’ll be watching for it.
ferrisjabr I think Sheena and Tamitha make good points. Personality and interests come into play too
ferrisjabr Perhaps future studies will look more closely at these factors
ferrisjabr But asking about degrees and occupations is a good way to get useful data
Heather Beresh I think Interests would be important to include! Perhaps in a follow-up study
sbaroncohen i agree interests of parents would be very informative
sbaroncohen Personality is precisely what we are interested to study
sbaroncohen A personality that is attracted to systems more than social relationships
nkvenugopal Did the parents (or grandparents) exhibit any signs of borderline autism?
sbaroncohen the study in Molecular Autism 2010 by Wheelwright and colleagues shows parents have higher levels of autistic traits
Rbtsfg is it just males with autism that favour systemizing (cars, trains etc)?
Rbtsfg how do females with autism tend to ‘systemize’?
sbaroncohen males in the population do show stronger interests in systems, on average
sbaroncohen females with autism may systemize differently to males. this needs more research
ferrisjabr Is it possible that systemizing in girls and women is less obvious and more difficult to detect?
nkvenugopal Would your study also look into a correlation between ‘degrees’ and ‘occupations’ and where the child lies on the spect
sbaroncohen we will be looking at parental degrees/occupations and child outcome on the autistic spectrum
Heather Beresh Glad you are doing this research though - I’ve been curious about this for some time now. My family would fit your criteria for sure!
Sheena I think girls systemize less obviously. That is why so many girls may live with undiagnosed Asperger’s syndrome for instance.
Rbtsfg perhaps less obvious to those ’looking’ for male-pattern traits?
sbaroncohen i think you’re right that systemizing in females may be harder to detect
sbaroncohen in what way might girls systemize less obviously?
sbaroncohen the topic of autism in girls has had very little scientific attention and is very important
Tamitha Mulligan Skov You will definitely find a positive correlation. Autistic people are drawn to science fields requiring little public speaking.
mbloudoff Fantastic chat everyone. We have about five minutes left. Any last questions for Dr. Baron-Cohen?
ferrisjabr I’ll just make a few quick points
ferrisjabr Tamitha, I think that is an interesting nuance. Perhaps some scientists on..
ferrisjabr the more ‘severe’ end of the spectrum stay out of the spotlight
Heather Beresh do you think autism is related to not filtering stimulus but rather taking it all in and storing it for later sorting and analysis?
sbaroncohen some people will be aware that DSM-5 plans to remove the term ‘Asperger Syndrome’ as a diagnosis
Tamitha Mulligan Skov Are the statistics lower for girls in science and engineering fields due to less women in science?
darciforrester what are your views on the dsm-5 changes?
ferrisjabr Yes that’s another important issue. The results from the DSM-5 Field Trials are currently being published
Heather Beresh if so, this would be an excellent skill for scientists!
sbaroncohen i think this is key - people with autism do tend to have difficulties filtering what information is relevant
darciforrester from my understanding it can still be written in the notes…
Summer sytemizing through language rather than science or math is definitely going to be less noticeable.
darciforrester personally, i think it’s great.
ferrisjabr Some people are worried that some people with autism may be excluded from diagnosis
Summer more noticable rather. lol
ferrisjabr Simon do you have thoughts about the new DSM-5 definition of autism spectrum disorder?
darciforrester i have seen first hand what is considered ‘classical’ autism vs. aspergers, and to me it is a whole other ballgame.
Heather Beresh so then, giving them tool to learn better ways of sorting and analysing information should be a focus
sbaroncohen on the plus side, DSM-5 does highlight that autism is a spectrum
sbaroncohen DSM-5 is also prompting scientists to start testing for differences between subgroups
darciforrester i think that people will still be diagnosed, but more correctly.
Heather Beresh it would turn a deficit into a strength
darciforrester i’m curious to see what the prevalence will be with the new definitions.
sbaroncohen most important to diagnosis is not the label but what the person’s needs are
sbaroncohen it’s been a pleasure chatting with you all
ferrisjabr Okay everyone we’re getting ready to wrap things up
sbaroncohen sorry if i’ve not managed to reply to all the comments
darciforrester exactly :) it’s just a label.
ferrisjabr Thanks so much to everyone for participating and for all your questions
Paul Wolf Food for thought in Psychology!
darciforrester thank you for your chat :)
mbloudoff Thank you to Dr. Baron-Cohen for joining us on Scientific American’s live chat. And thanks to Ferris Jabr who set this up.
sbaroncohen you’re welcome. hope you enjoyed the article
David Smith thanks
David Smith very interesting
ferrisjabr If anyone has any last questions you can send them to me on twitter
ferrisjabr Bye for now!
Tommy Gilbertson fantastic insight! finally we are getting glimmers of an answer to autism. continue this line of research at all costs!
ferrisjabr Good morning everyone! I’m Ferris Jabr, one of the associate editors at Scientific American
ferrisjabr We’ll be starting the chat soon
mbloudoff Hi everyone, I’m Mollie Bloudoff-Indelicato with Scientific American. I’ll be joining in the chat as well.
Summer My name is Aaron Summer Lopez of Kansas City, Missouri
darciforrester Hi - my name is Darci Forrester - I’m in Oklahoma
mbloudoff Feel free to start posting questions now. We’ll get started in a few minutes.
mbloudoff Aaron, Darci – Great to have you to chatting with us today. Looking forward to your questions.
jm_c_r Hi my name is Josep M Im in Reus Catalonia
sbaroncohen Hi, this is Simon Baron-Cohen. Looking forward to chatting.
ferrisjabr Welcome to the Scientific American chat.
ferrisjabr We’ll be live for the next 30 minutes with University of Cambridge psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen, who is an expert on
ferrisjabr I’m Ferris Jabr, an associate editor for Scientific American, and I’ll be hosting this chat.
ferrisjabr Let’s get started.
darciforrester Hi Ferris
darciforrester Hi Simon
ferrisjabr Does anyone have any general questions for Professor Baron-Cohen about the genetics of autism?
darciforrester Yes - what kind of links are there to schizophrinia
darciforrester My husband and i both have genetic histories of it….
darciforrester Currently, our son is undergoing a trial of Risperdal (under the watch of a neurologist), and from what I understand
darciforrester and have read it is considered an anti-psychotic
sbaroncohen the majority of people with autism do not have autism but they can co occur
Summer My question was two-fold in relation to Autism and how it physiologically affects us during winter.
Summer Which would allow me to understand more of myself because I have not been diagnosed with Autism but my doctor referred to Asbergers.
sbaroncohen autism doesn’t seem to have a seasonal component unlike some forms of depression
sbaroncohen a diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome can be useful to help a person understand why they have had difficulties
Summer Biologically though has it ever been studied a link between higher thought in cold vs hot climates? This may be an avenue that could shed
Summer light on demographics.
sbaroncohen i’m not aware of any research comparing rates of autism in different climates
Summer thank you sir.
sbaroncohen we want to find out what the ‘risk factors’ are in parents to have a child with different kinds of autism
sbaroncohen parents can help our research by going to www.cambridgepsychology.com/graduateparents
nkvenugopal What are the common ‘risk factors’ that you’ve come across?
mbloudoff How many parents have participated so far?
sbaroncohen the website was only launched on november 2nd so it’s too early to say
sbaroncohen we are hoping to have thousands of parents give us information about their degrees and occupations
sbaroncohen risk factors in parents include having a previous child with autism
sbaroncohen but we are testing the hypothesis that scientists may have a higher rate of autism among their children
David Smith is it true that MIT was approached to do a study like this buy declined access to alumni
sbaroncohen It is true that we explored running this study at MIT.
sbaroncohen the advantage of our website study is that it doesn’t focus on one specific university like MIT
ferrisjabr It might be interesting to discuss the observations related to this hypothesis
ferrisjabr Particularly the higher rates of autism among MIT alumni, in the Silicon Valley etc
sbaroncohen we looked at autism rates in a different ‘silicon valley’ in the Netherlands, called Eindhoven
sbaroncohen we found there were more than twice as many children with autism in Eindhoven than in other Dutch cities
sbaroncohen Eindhoven is an information technology hub
nkvenugopal Regarding the hypothesis, does it stem from a hypthesis that scientists are borderline autistic as well?
darciforrester do you consider autism a kind of evolution of the brain?
sbaroncohen i think autism involves a different kind of mind and brain
sbaroncohen evolutionary hypotheses are very difficult to test
Ornella Are you also going to look at parents? If they have also autistic traits?
sbaroncohen we published a study in 2010 on parents, showing they have higher levels of autistic traits
sbaroncohen that was in the journal Molecular Autism
Ornella Thanks I will look at the publication
ferrisjabr Just a note for any latecomers: the chat is in full swing; feel free to post your questions
darciforrester systemizing is very interesting to read about….
darciforrester we have noticed how our son reacts to different situations….eg, he loves to be cuddled, and seems to empathize with
darciforrester inanimate objects or non-human characters
sbaroncohen i suspect that among parents or siblings of a person with autism there are higher rates of talents in systemizing
nkvenugopal Can you explain that a little bit more? ‘higher rates of talents in systemizing’?
Tamitha Mulligan Skov It is generally known among engineers that many in the field tend toward autism anyway, regardless of intellect.
sbaroncohen we have found fathers and grandfathers of children with autism are more likely to be engineers
sbaroncohen systemizing is how we figure out how a system works
sbaroncohen some systems are mathematical, some are mechanical, some are natural (like the weather)
sbaroncohen people with autism seem to be very interested in systems because they follow rules and have predictable
sbaroncohen and of course scientists systemize as part of their job patterns
mbloudoff Is it just a paternal link (fathers and grandfathers)?
darciforrester yes, i’m curious about the paternal link as well.
sbaroncohen we don’t know if the link is just paternal - our website study should help us identify if it is maternal as well
sbaroncohen i expect that both parents are contributing genes relevant to autism
darciforrester do you have a close date on data collection? when will the results be published?
Sheena My son is autistic, and my degree is in English. However, I have a great interest in science. Will your study take interests into account?
Tamitha Mulligan Skov In engineering you often do not need well developed social skills either. Could personality play a role as well?
sbaroncohen we haven’t got questions about ‘interests’, only about ‘degrees’ and ‘occupations’
sbaroncohen our study will run for a couple of months and we will summarize the results in Scientific American
darciforrester awesome. i’ll be watching for it.
ferrisjabr I think Sheena and Tamitha make good points. Personality and interests come into play too
ferrisjabr Perhaps future studies will look more closely at these factors
ferrisjabr But asking about degrees and occupations is a good way to get useful data
Heather Beresh I think Interests would be important to include! Perhaps in a follow-up study
sbaroncohen i agree interests of parents would be very informative
sbaroncohen Personality is precisely what we are interested to study
sbaroncohen A personality that is attracted to systems more than social relationships
nkvenugopal Did the parents (or grandparents) exhibit any signs of borderline autism?
sbaroncohen the study in Molecular Autism 2010 by Wheelwright and colleagues shows parents have higher levels of autistic traits
Rbtsfg is it just males with autism that favour systemizing (cars, trains etc)?
Rbtsfg how do females with autism tend to ‘systemize’?
sbaroncohen males in the population do show stronger interests in systems, on average
sbaroncohen females with autism may systemize differently to males. this needs more research
ferrisjabr Is it possible that systemizing in girls and women is less obvious and more difficult to detect?
nkvenugopal Would your study also look into a correlation between ‘degrees’ and ‘occupations’ and where the child lies on the spect
sbaroncohen we will be looking at parental degrees/occupations and child outcome on the autistic spectrum
Heather Beresh Glad you are doing this research though - I’ve been curious about this for some time now. My family would fit your criteria for sure!
Sheena I think girls systemize less obviously. That is why so many girls may live with undiagnosed Asperger’s syndrome for instance.
Rbtsfg perhaps less obvious to those ’looking’ for male-pattern traits?
sbaroncohen i think you’re right that systemizing in females may be harder to detect
sbaroncohen in what way might girls systemize less obviously?
sbaroncohen the topic of autism in girls has had very little scientific attention and is very important
Tamitha Mulligan Skov You will definitely find a positive correlation. Autistic people are drawn to science fields requiring little public speaking.
mbloudoff Fantastic chat everyone. We have about five minutes left. Any last questions for Dr. Baron-Cohen?
ferrisjabr I’ll just make a few quick points
ferrisjabr Tamitha, I think that is an interesting nuance. Perhaps some scientists on..
ferrisjabr the more ‘severe’ end of the spectrum stay out of the spotlight
Heather Beresh do you think autism is related to not filtering stimulus but rather taking it all in and storing it for later sorting and analysis?
sbaroncohen some people will be aware that DSM-5 plans to remove the term ‘Asperger Syndrome’ as a diagnosis
Tamitha Mulligan Skov Are the statistics lower for girls in science and engineering fields due to less women in science?
darciforrester what are your views on the dsm-5 changes?
ferrisjabr Yes that’s another important issue. The results from the DSM-5 Field Trials are currently being published
Heather Beresh if so, this would be an excellent skill for scientists!
sbaroncohen i think this is key - people with autism do tend to have difficulties filtering what information is relevant
darciforrester from my understanding it can still be written in the notes…
Summer sytemizing through language rather than science or math is definitely going to be less noticeable.
darciforrester personally, i think it’s great.
ferrisjabr Some people are worried that some people with autism may be excluded from diagnosis
Summer more noticable rather. lol
ferrisjabr Simon do you have thoughts about the new DSM-5 definition of autism spectrum disorder?
darciforrester i have seen first hand what is considered ‘classical’ autism vs. aspergers, and to me it is a whole other ballgame.
Heather Beresh so then, giving them tool to learn better ways of sorting and analysing information should be a focus
sbaroncohen on the plus side, DSM-5 does highlight that autism is a spectrum
sbaroncohen DSM-5 is also prompting scientists to start testing for differences between subgroups
darciforrester i think that people will still be diagnosed, but more correctly.
Heather Beresh it would turn a deficit into a strength
darciforrester i’m curious to see what the prevalence will be with the new definitions.
sbaroncohen most important to diagnosis is not the label but what the person’s needs are
sbaroncohen it’s been a pleasure chatting with you all
ferrisjabr Okay everyone we’re getting ready to wrap things up
sbaroncohen sorry if i’ve not managed to reply to all the comments
darciforrester exactly :) it’s just a label.
ferrisjabr Thanks so much to everyone for participating and for all your questions
Paul Wolf Food for thought in Psychology!
darciforrester thank you for your chat :)
mbloudoff Thank you to Dr. Baron-Cohen for joining us on Scientific American’s live chat. And thanks to Ferris Jabr who set this up.
sbaroncohen you’re welcome. hope you enjoyed the article
David Smith thanks
David Smith very interesting
ferrisjabr If anyone has any last questions you can send them to me on twitter
ferrisjabr Bye for now!
Tommy Gilbertson fantastic insight! finally we are getting glimmers of an answer to autism. continue this line of research at all costs!
